<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1"
 http-equiv="content-type">
  <title>router_debate</title>
</head>
<body>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"><big
 style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold;"><span
 style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">This is a debate that occurred on Arren's
new router. Arren wanted to take over primary router</span><br
 style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">adminship. I thought she'd agreed to
be an alternate router. This conflict played out as follows:<br>
</span></big></span>
<hr style="width: 100%; height: 2px;"><span
 style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);"><big
 style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: bold;"><span
 style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br>
</span></big><br>
[2007.02.16-19.56] Arren@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Right now, it
seems that a corollary of your intention is to have someone put a lot
of work into something which simply competes with you. I've made it
clear that I do not want to compete with you.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-19.57] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-19.57] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; what would i gain from that?</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-19.57] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; oh i ge tit</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-19.57] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; you fail i laugh</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-19.58] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; dunno how i would convince you that's not in my
interest</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-19.59] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; only thing i can do is point to my history of not
being that kind of guy</span><br>
[2007.02.16-19.59] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; What kind of
guy have you been, exactly?<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.00] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; definitely an excellent driver</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.00] &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Mouse@Broken Empire snickers.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.00] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; lookit, before i was router admin i was a regular
ball breaking wise ass like everyone else on gjs</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.01] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i set up yatmim and it had a purpose and i
protected it</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.01] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i dunno how that made me look like a bad guy</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.01] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Should have
removed intergossip by default in your noob muds.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.01] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; but i guess it did</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.01] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; throughout, whether on gjs or yatmim, i have not
been intentionally malicious</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.02] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; no doubt i crossed a boundary here or there, but
intentional hurtfulness is not my thing</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.02] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I don't think you're always aware of when you're
being malicious.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.02] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; even when duuk asked for unix help</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.02] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; all i did was provide specific helpful information</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.02] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so, what kind of guy?</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.02] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; pretty nice guy</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.03] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; but somehow being router admin has made me seem
like an evil overfiend, and since i'm just me, i have no idea how to
combat that</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.04] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; My serious best suggestion is to turn off
igossip by default on DS (I can't actually work out how to turn it on),
and abdicate. If you don't want to do that, I don't mind, and I will
gladly leave you with status quo.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.05] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; how about this</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.05] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i block intergossip completely on yatmim</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.05] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; all yatmim traffic has to come here</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.05] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; all INTERGOSSIP</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; all intergossip traffic has to come here</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.06] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Talk about
over reaction.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm not acting</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm asking</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.06] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; That's why
we think you're an asshole.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm suggesting</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; this is a *sugestion* not a confrontation</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.06] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Because when
we offer a solution that would make everyone happy, you threaten to
take your toys and go home.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; some people are able to think in terms other than
"fuck you"</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.06] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I don't think that's the best way to achieve an
objective. It's obstructive and malicious, and will do you far fewer
favours than any other suggestion.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.07] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; mmm</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.07] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; let's suppose there's something worng with me</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.08] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; assume i have a mental defect</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.08] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Blocking igossip on yatmim would certainly have
the effect you intend, but you'd piss off more people, and I don't want
you to do that.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.08] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and this defect prevents me from allowing
hate-speech to happen on common channels on a router i run</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.08] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; like, this defect makes me feel physically ill to
imagine people associate me with that sort of thing</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.09] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; hmm<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so that whether ds muds per se are connected to it
is not so much the point</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; but that it happens on my watch in my house, is</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; again</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; defect</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.09] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; That's not a defect, it's a fair reaction. It
makes you perhaps distant from the norm, but it's not a defect.
However, this distance from the norm might make you a bad politician or
ambassador.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; this is a thought exercise</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.09] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; So make
intergossip a "non public" channel<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.10] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; that's what i'm proposing</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.10] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; making ig on yatmim non public</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.10] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; All you need
to do is remove the words "intergossip" from dead souls mudlib<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.10] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so that joe schmoe will come here instead</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.10] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Mouse, the question is, can one plan an orderly
reorganisation without Cratylus pissing off any more people.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.10] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; No, you're
not understanding.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.10] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Just remove
intergossip from the DS lib.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.10] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Not from the
router.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.10] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; you have not been listening mouse</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.11] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; So your
noobs won't ever know it exists.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.11] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Mouse, I think we're currently not in the realm
of that solution.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.11] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Then a
better solution would be for yatmim to cease function and pass
everything to adsr<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i think an orderly migration can be done</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.12] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; the
community isn't broken up and Crat doesn't have to be associated with
anything he's unhappy about.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so long as theres no big rush</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; whether people are mad at me is kind of irrelevant
to me</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; at this point it's the default</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so it's not worth trying to avoid</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.13] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; You say
that, but then you whine about what people will think about you due to
IG<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.13] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; It matters to me, and it's also fixable. I'd
like to achieve both.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.13] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; fine by me, either way</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.14] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Cratylus, it honestly sounds like the best
solution to me. It removes you from the site of the problem. People
have very short memories.</span><br style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.14] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; And it avoids fragmenting the network, something
I am very keen to avoid.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.15] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Also, and
don't take this the wrong way...<br>
[2007.02.16-20.15] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren is
probably better at network socket code.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; heh</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; ok</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so the idea then is</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; intergossip moves to arrenrouter</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.15] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren I'm
sure won't actually care about the DS/Dchat lines<br>
[2007.02.16-20.16] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Um, no.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.16] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; yatmim
closes.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.16] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; adsr handles
everything.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.16] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and ds by default goes on yatmim</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.16] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Including
your precious dead souls<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.16] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; mouse you're just not being helpful</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.16] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Which will
help everyone, and you get the benefits of the better maintained router<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.16] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Mouse is just disagreeing with you. That's not
the same as "unhelpful".</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.17] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; heh</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.17] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; In
Crat-world it is.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.17] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Crat, listen.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.17] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren is
better at network code.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.17] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; So you
benefit.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.17] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; You don't
have to seem like an asshat anymore.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.17] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; So you
benefit<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.17] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Perhaps we can run this in reverse. What
assertions or references from me would you accept in order to keep I3
non-fragmented?</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.17] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Dead Souls
still gets its nice, quiet place to hang out<br>
[2007.02.16-20.18] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; and we cvan
all get back the hatred filled crat we knew and loved from gks<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i understand what you are talking about. what i am
telling you is that in my entire experience on line, relying on anyone
else for anything is stupid</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i case about ds</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; care</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i have to trust arren to let her do what you say</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; this is the first time we ever talk about such a
thing</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.18] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; We relied on
Zakk for i3 for 12 years.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.19] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; It worked
out ok.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.19] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Technically
we relied on Rust.&nbsp; But he was imaginary.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.19] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; mouse, then go back to gjs</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.19] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Now who's
being unhelpful.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.19] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i think it's a valid point</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.19] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Cratylus, I have a professionally maintained
server farm with hands and eyes. I have QoS and routing guarantees. I
have nearly 20 years' unix experience and 15 years experience as a
Linux administrator. I run a number of high profile networks and
services for organisations of which you have heard and of which you may
even be a member.</span><br style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.20] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I can provide references, probably from people
you know; if not, at least from people you have heard of and respect.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.20] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i believe you. i look forward to working with you
as a partner in a nified i3 network</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.20] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Here's the
problem.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.20] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; i3 isn't
exactly high tech.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.20] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; if it doesnt work outm then i will carry on on my
own as i have before</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.20] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; And I'd
think anyone that spent more than a pittance of time making it so would
be an idiot.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.21] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren is
offering to make a stable network code that is pretty easy to run with
minimal effort<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.21] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; is that what she said?</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.21] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I'm not trying to touch the dead souls project.
I think you do good work there. I think you do less good work with I3,
and I think I3 should not be a fragmented network.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.21] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; You'll
ALWAYS have the ability to update your network page and switch back to
yatmim if you want.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.21] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; ok hang on</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.22] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; do you understand that i've worked essentially a
part time job on ds for the past 2 years?</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.22] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; And no one
will change that<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.22] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; this is not a 5 minutes once a week thing</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.22] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I do. Nobody wants to take that away from you.
Least of all me, I couldn't do what you do.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.22] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren is
just offering to host the i3 network and remove that from your list of
problems.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.22] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; my fucking blood, thin as it may be, is in it</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.22] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Dead Souls
will stay as you<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.23] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and i hav eonly just started talking to arren about
a partnership of *any* kind</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.23] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and any time i trusted someone else to do anything
i counted on i have had my ass invaded</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.23] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Which speaks
more to your insecurity than anything else.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.24] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so you can understand, i hope, why i'm not handing
over every last scintilla to arren in this first conversation</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.24] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I honestly
wonder if english is your primary language sometimes.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.25] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; DS = Crat<br>
[2007.02.16-20.25] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I3 = Arren<br>
[2007.02.16-20.25] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Everyone ==
Happy.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.25] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Cratylus, I have offered you references and
history. I am not asking for DS, nor to change what you're doing to it.
I'm actually offering to help you with the DS project, but I'm also
trying to give I3 a stable and unfragmented basis.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.26] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; ok</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.26] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm with you on that, which is why i keep harping
on thtis inter router thing</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.26] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i know nobody is grubbing at ds</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.26] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Here's my
problem with "interrouter"<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.26] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Mouse, I can do inter-router. Relax.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.26] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I'm not
gonna update my i3 daemon because well, i3 isn't that important.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.27] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; But I can't do it immediately. I work 14 hour
days. I'm 3 days off inter-router.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.27] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i dont think there's a big hurry, is there?</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.27] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; we'll get there</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.27] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; we dont have to walk from this conversation with
everything fixed</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.30] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Cratylus, what would assure you that I could run
I3 in such a way as to satisfy you?</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; mmmmm</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; well</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i know you're well capable of it</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; that's not in question</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i've just never relied on you for anything</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and that is hard to get over</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.31] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; which is why</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.31] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i figure</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.31] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; if you run ig and and are invested in it</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.31] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Until you do, you never will have. But many
others have, and this is why I provide references. I'm flattered that
you don't question my ability, even before really interacting with any
of my work.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.32] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; no fense, but it isn't rocket science, and you seem
quite capable code wise, so it just makes sense</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.32] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; what i'm not understanding is</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.32] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; what is so objectionable about having intergossip
move to asdf</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.32] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; while ds muds stay on yatmim</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.33] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; not trying to be argumentative</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.33] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; just not quite gettin git</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.33] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; because
then, in effect, there becomes 2 i3 networks<br>
[2007.02.16-20.33] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; and
splitting the crowd is bad<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.33] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; until the Grand Unification</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.33] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; which will
never happen<br>
[2007.02.16-20.34] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Trust Uncle
Duukie<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.34] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; It fragments the network. It means that neither
router is likely to maintain critical mass for a community, and the way
I3 has been hemorrhaging MUDs recently, that's a serious problem.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.34] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; it'll always
get pushed off one more month<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.34] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I have two objectives: First, build a community.
Second, keep that community happy. Nonfragmentation is required.</span><br
 style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.35] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I've done this before, it's what I do for a job.
It's what I do for a hobby.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.38] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm only human. i need time to digest new ideas
that involve changing the way i look at things.</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.39] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i will think about what you've said</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.39] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; by the same token</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.39] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i believe my proposition is a reasonable one</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.39] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and i hope you do the same</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.40] Reflection@My Nuts In Your Mouth!
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; Test<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.40] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; howdy</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.41] Reflection@My Nuts In Your Mouth!
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; wich router am I connected to correctly? =)<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.41] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; arren</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.41] Reflection@My Nuts In Your Mouth!
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; ok =) well, works.&nbsp; very nice<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.41] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I have argued against your proposal. I build
communities. I do not break them. I will not break this one.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.42] Reflection@My Nuts In Your Mouth!
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; for some reason I couldn't get the sorrows to send
it's startup request correctly, tho it worked fine with gjs<br>
[2007.02.16-20.44] Reflection@My Nuts In Your Mouth!
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; so whats the argument, to attempt to keep both
routers in play instead of individual groups moving to one or the other?<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.44] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I'm trying to help you not to break it either,
and to convince you that other than the personal hurdle, you have
nothing to lose by passing I3 to adsr.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.45] Reflection@My Nuts In Your Mouth!
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; ahhh. nm.&nbsp; makes sense now<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.45] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; You tell me what you want for DS muds, I will
provide it.</span><br style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.46] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; All that remains is the personal hurdle, and
still you lose nothing. DS is a good project.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.46] Reflection@My Nuts In Your Mouth!
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; back shortly, forgot I named thism ud so horribly
for fun awhile ago<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.46] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; listen</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.47] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; my promise to you was adding this router to the
intermud page i run. we went from that to me making everyone move to
your new router</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.47] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; let's let it cool for a bit while i think about it</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.48] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Please don't leave it too long, otherwise the
time will break the community anyway.</span><br
 style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.48] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; The current situation is the one I'm trying to
avoid.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.49] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; it's held for half a year. waht's the rush?</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.49] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; The current situation is two independent routers.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.49] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; To be
frank...<br>
[2007.02.16-20.49] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; the rush is
that you've become quite an issue of late<br>
[2007.02.16-20.49] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; You're ok
when you're sober.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.50] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; but when
you're drunk you tend to cause many muds to consider permanently
leaving the network.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.50] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; mouse i think you should speak for yourself</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.51] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; if anything your argument favors multiple networks</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.51] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I think you
should understand that we like you.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.51] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; let the chicps fall where they may</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.51] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; But we hate
the fact that you become "OMG ITS MINE" when you drink.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.52] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; have you noticed that it's when people pick on me
that i become combtive</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.52] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; or when people break rules that i enforce them?</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.52] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; maybe it's you that needs to work things out</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.54] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; This is off the point. The point is to establish
a sane and consensual basis for I3 which does not fragment the network.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.54] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i though mouse was just being helpful</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.54] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; arren i agree with you</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.54] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; that's something we've agreed on from the start</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.55] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; you appear to want an immedate answer to a request
to change the way i look at things right this minute</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.55] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm sorry but i am not yet godhead</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.55] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm going to need to think about it</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.56] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Well then<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.56] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Remember that nothing is being taken from you.
This is just an experienced network administrator offering to
administrate a network service.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.56] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Please list
Arren's router as an alternate on your precious website.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.56] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; While you
think.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.56] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; that was my question actually</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.56] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; when this thing started it wasnt all that clear i
should do that</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.57] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and so i asked the question as to whether i should
list it</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.57] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; should i do so?</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.57] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I would, yes.<br>
[2007.02.16-20.57] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Until this
all gets sorted out.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-20.57] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; yeah i caught that</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-20.58] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; What is your plan for the future? To persist in
splitting the network? To delay making a decision on the issue? To
resign to a situation de-facto?</span><br>
[2007.02.16-20.59] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Obviously i3
is going to split into 2 factions.<br>
[2007.02.16-21.00] Reflection@Mirror Ring &lt;imud_gossip&gt; it's not
the first time<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.00] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm happy either way, though unification is my
preference. i've said it before. i dunno how many times i must repeat
it to arren's satisfaction</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.00] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm starting to feel like i'm not being listened to</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.00] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Well, I would love for a single router to come
under the banner, diplomacy and publicity of the DS project.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.00] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; thats cause
you or sort of contradicting yourself<br>
[2007.02.16-21.01] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; are*<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.01] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i like vanilla and ilike pistachio, but i prefer
pistachio</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.01] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; either way, ice cream</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.01] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; perhaps those are terms you can understand, tats</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.01] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; There are more ice cream consumers than there
are MUDs, therefore the manufacturers can afford to make two flavours.</span><br
 style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.01] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; We do not have that luxury.</span><br
 style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.01] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; We are down to 21 active MUDs from 90, and we
have lost entire sub-communities.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.02] Reflection@Mirror Ring &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I'll be
happy with coffeepot back online and in reach, it's the best channel on
any router!<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.02] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; do you think that saying the same things over and
over will make me answer you to your satisfaction?</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.03] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; CP is down because of Earth, but I can put
Amethyst on bofh, Amethyst is much more powerful than CP.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.03] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i dunno what cp is</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.03] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; a channel i suppose</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.03] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; An AI.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.03] Reflection@Mirror Ring &lt;imud_gossip&gt; on a
serious note, there are many muds that do not even know about the new
router/routers, wouldn't a campaigne for awareness be a good start...
once you've decided on whose running what I mean<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.03]
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren@Anarres II nods.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.04] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i think this raises a fair point</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.04] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; which is the same problem i3 had before i showed</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.04] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I've reached out to some of the admins of those
muds and communities recently, since I remained in contact with many of
them. I will do so again when this gets resolved.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.04] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; "single point of failure"</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.04] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren, I'd
suggest you reinvite them to adsr<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.04] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and this is why you're not getting any kind of
commitment from me</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.05] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; the last time i was ok with an spf beyond my direct
control, it died</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.05] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Cratylus, the Anarres network has 24x7
monitoring, support and hands-and-eyes.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.05] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; yeah, but
they never did anything to prevent that, arren wouldnt let it just die
out<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.05] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; ok, you say so, and it's probably true</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.06] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; We have a pager network with an ops team of two
always on call.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; but it's still a problem</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; heh</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.06] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; that's not the point</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.06] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; It rather is the point, this is nearly telecomms
grade.</span><br style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.06] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; These are professional engineers, not casual
coders.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.06] Reflection@Mirror Ring &lt;imud_gossip&gt; perhaps
Arren could name 1-2 benefactors, for whom should anything happen to
his person, would have access to said router source?&nbsp; wich nothing
short of death will cause him to cease his maintenance, I know Arren
well enough.&nbsp; He's solidly deddicated to tasks to the point, he
goes down with a simnking ship' it's what we love about him<br>
[2007.02.16-21.06] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Crat, your
objection seems to be network stability.<br>
[2007.02.16-21.06] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren offers
that in spades.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.07] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i dont think it is. what you are talking about is
"fuck the inter router network, i want a single router"</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.07] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; When I go on holiday, there is an entire ops
team to manage the systems, and whom you can contact for maintenance
and administration.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.07] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i think this is a paradigm which has proven to be a
failure</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.07] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; i think
crats objection is, i wont be god anymore<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.07] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Right now we don't have an inter-router network.
When we have, you will be the first invitee, Cratylus. I will also
offer to code it.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.07] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Crat... so 1
router is ok if you run it.&nbsp; But 1 router is a failure of design
in Arren runs it?<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.07] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Do you want it to be your failure, or the
failure of a professional team of telecomms engineers?</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.07] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; why dont we just code it now?</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.08] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Because I started at 10am today, it's now 3am,
and it's been a long time since I've had a day off.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.08] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; ok we can start tomorrow</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.08] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Tomorrow was going to be my day off.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.08] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; then the day after</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.09] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Have you ever written a fault tolerant network
system?</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.09] Reflection@Mirror Ring &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren is
the most stable and reliable force on i3 this day.&nbsp; I'd hate to
see i3 split, but I will take sides if it has to be so. =(<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; it's been half a year since gjs died. nobody is
going to cease living</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; well if people go to arrens router, then fine</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'll put a mud of my own on there as well</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.09] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; that's not the point</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.10] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Let me write the inter-router code. I have
experience of design and implementation of truly fault tolerant systems.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.10] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; making the ds people move there is not something
i'm going to undertake lightly</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.10] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; haha, that
sounded like my six, even my two year old "then fine!"<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.10] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; afaict this is now a game of make cratylus do it
right this minute</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.10] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Crat, we're
trying hard to include you and the DS people<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.10] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and i'm not seeing the reason for it</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.11] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so it's just making me more skeptical</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.11] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; No, this is
a game of "Make Crat admit he's just going to tell all of us to fuck
off anyway"<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.11] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; The reason is that your delaying, combined with
the publicity of the DS project, is what will cause a fragmentation of
the network.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.11] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; tonight?</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.11] Reflection@Mirror Ring &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Ok, so
the favoritism of 'your' mudlib, over all others, over an entire
community wins out.&nbsp; I thought all this time i3 was a 'mud
community' not a nazi gathering of specific share holders on an
individualist plan of mudworld domination ='(<br>
[2007.02.16-21.11] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Crat, but
not accepting the idea here, we all know what is about to happen<br>
[2007.02.16-21.11] Reflection@Mirror Ring &lt;imud_gossip&gt; afk smoke
=(<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.11] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; well no actually</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.11] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren's
router will become the new community, but you'll keep your DS people on
yatmim<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; tell me what's going to happen</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; ok</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.12] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; And you'll
never migrate them.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and when theres an intermud route rnetwork
everybody will be on it</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.12] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; And that's
not good for the overall community either since it brings in no new
blood<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.12] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Mouse: Then the publicity hits yatmim, since
that's the router under the DS banner, and the network fragments.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and it will be transpartent</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.12] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Crat...
that's pointless though.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm missing something here</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm not getting something</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.12] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; someone please explain it</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.13] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Mouse was devil's advocate for a minute, and
perhaps you missed it.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.13] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; cuz yall are hollering for no urgent reason</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.13] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; inter-router
support is a whole lot of code work for a very minor result<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.13] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i disagree</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.13] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; it is the core of the future</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.13] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; mouse, its
no use, he cant let go of his control over it, thats why hes insisting
on interrouter, so he still can play god<br>
[2007.02.16-21.13] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; when a
VASTLY easier solution is, "let the network admin run the network"<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.13] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; a decentralized inter router network fixes
everything</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.13] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; that is what im arguing for</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.14] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; for a lot
more effort<br>
[2007.02.16-21.14] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; effort that
can be avoided<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.14] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; like you'd lose a drop of sweat, tats</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.14] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; We haven't got one right now. We aren't going to
have one right now. Choose your next best solution please.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.14] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Ok, let me
put this another way...<br>
[2007.02.16-21.14] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Can you code
an inter router network?<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.14] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; yes</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.14] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Because I
can't.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.14] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i can</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.14] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Then why
haven't you?<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.14] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'd rather have arren help</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.14] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; no, i
wouldnt, but im also friends with arren and why would i want her to
spend hours upon hours o coding something that wasnt needed<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Cratylus, I can code IRN solo in under a day,
AND have all kinds of fault tolerance built in that you've never even
heard of.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; great</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; let's do it</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; But I'm not going to do it today.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; fine</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; it can way a few moons</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; wait</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; But I will commit to give you full access to the
codebase so when it does come out, you can run it.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.15] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'm not grokking the need for an immediate fix
before bedtime</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.16] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; In the meantime, please, don't fragment the
network.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.16] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; ok</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.16] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Please, make a decision.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.16] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; fine, "no"</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.16] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Ok.&nbsp;
Then get lost.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.16] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Not for action right this minute, but a decision.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.16] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Sorry to put
it that way.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.16] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; the decision is, lets do an IRN, and the problem
disappears</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.16] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; it'll be done by march</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.17] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and then everyone is happy</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.17] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and the question of a primary router is moot</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.17] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; ...assuming
Arren gets a whole day to work on i3 this month.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.17] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Cratylus, I've spent nearly 3 hours discussing
this with you for the basic reason of trying to do you a favour.</span><br
 style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.17] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; You get shit off I3. I'm trying to remove that
shit and let everyone forget it while actually providing a better
service than you do.</span><br style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.17] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; That's it.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.17] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and i thank you for it</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and it's gonna be great</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i think this is the start of a beautiful partnership</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; if you could only learn to cool your fucking jets</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.18] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; It is no kind of partnership while you us
phrases like "no"</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.18] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; you'll forgive me for giving you the answer you
dont want while you put the screws on</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.18] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren, let
it go.<br>
[2007.02.16-21.19] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Crat's going
to keep the DS people on yatmim.<br>
[2007.02.16-21.19] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; End of story.<br>
[2007.02.16-21.19] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Let's work
on getting the non-Crat people onto this router.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.19] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; mouse i think you missed the point</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.19] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Do you think we can hold the community?</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.19] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Tits, wake
Corvie up.<br>
[2007.02.16-21.19] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I do, Arren.<br>
[2007.02.16-21.19] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; hes not here
hun<br>
[2007.02.16-21.19] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; prolly
sleeping, he had dinner with the gf tonight<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.20] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I can run the network, because it's me plus ops.
I can't get ops to do team management or anything, so I have to rely on
you gyus.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.20] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I think the
core people will come.&nbsp; I think that Coffee has an intermud daemon
built in that hasn't been updated since gjs<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.20] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; they connect to yatmim now</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.20] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; but you might be able to get zac to change it</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.20] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; There are a few other communities I wont'
mention immediately, but that we can work with, which might restore a
few more groups.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.21] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; heh</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.21] Reflection@Mirror Ring &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren, do
you have plans of releaseing a form of your mudlib to the public?&nbsp;
That would possibly also help usher in new people as well, I can do
some free campaigning here and there, get a little more backing and
some fresh blood possibly =)<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.21] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; so much for non-fragmentation being your goal</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.21] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; anyway, back to my question</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.21] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; do i list asdf?</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.21] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Crat, you're
not getting it.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.21] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I didn't play hard-ball. You did.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.21] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; We wanted to
include you.<br>
[2007.02.16-21.21] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; You decided
that was never going to happen until inter router.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.21] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Yes, please list it.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.21] Mouse@Broken Empire &lt;imud_gossip&gt; So you're
the one seperated the community.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.21] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; whatever guys, you're right, it had to be decided
right this second</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.22] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; do i list asdf?</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.22] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Yes, please list adsr.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.22] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; k</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.22] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; A decision now does not imply action now.</span><br
 style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.22] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Remember Kyoto.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.23] Duuk@Haven &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Better<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.26] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; there you go http://lpmuds.net/intermud.html</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.26] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; http://lpmuds.net/forum/ is a good place to announce</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.27] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; but there are many others, including
http://lpmuds.net/links.html</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.27]
&lt;imud_gossip&gt; Arren@Anarres II looks confused. Now there are
three routers.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.27] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; well yes</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.27] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Cratylus, it sounds very much as if you want to
compete, rather than cooperate.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.27] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; that is what i promised to do</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.27] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'd list you on the intermud page</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.28] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i dunno if i can clarify my position any better by
comtinuing to repeat it</span><br style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.28] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i'll leave it to your chan history</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.29] Duuk@Haven &lt;imud_gossip&gt; You know I've been
picturing you sitting at your desk saying, "My precious..." for like 2
hours now, right?<br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.29] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; We understand your position, we disagree with
it, we're attempting to persuade you otherwise. You have rejected every
offer which carries consensus or reduces your absolute authority.</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.29] Tatianna@Anarres II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; i can
clarify it for you<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.29] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; no i haven't</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.29] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i have simply asked for time to think about it</span><br>
[2007.02.16-21.29] Duuk@Haven &lt;imud_gossip&gt; Yes.&nbsp; You have.<br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.29] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; which i think is reasonable and proper</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.29] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; and when forced, my answer is "no"</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; which again</span><br
 style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; i think is entirely reasonable</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.30] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; I think thinking time is quite reasonable,
bearing in mind that the network is now fragmented, and the decision
from Cratylus is the only thing that will bring it back together.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; since you're insisting on immediate change of my
view</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(204, 0, 0);">[2007.02.16-21.30] Arren@Anarres
II &lt;imud_gossip&gt; So please do think about it.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 255);">[2007.02.16-21.30] Cratylus
&lt;intergossip&gt; k</span><br>
<br>
</body>
</html>
